SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Rationalization of what?

That you can respect and betray someone at the same time. I disagree. I understand your position and thoughts and disagree. What does that have to do with gas-lighting?

That you can respect and betray someone at the same time.

How is that a "rationalization" of anything?

It's quite simply a fact. I felt respect for my husband before, during, and after the affair. My actions were not in alignment with that because there were competing motives that ultimately won out. (This is known as "cognitive dissonance." You might try looking it up if you can't think of a single time in your oh-so-perfect life when you've experienced it yourself. It's enlightening.)

You can't be like "No, you didn't feel that way. No, you didn't hold these beliefs about your H." You realize that, right? Insisting that you know someone's thoughts, feelings, and beliefs better than they do themselves, and that they aren't reliable narrators of those things... that's gaslighting.

But I know you're trolling at this point. It's blatantly obvious and it's not fucking cute. You're a sick, sick individual.

** Member to Member **

What help are you hoping to receive from SIers?

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Have you considered the possibility that others might see you more accurately than you see yourself?

Have you considered that you might be misinterpreting what responders have written?

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I don't understand the tone of your responses. You say, in effect, that you're being misunderstood, and yet you keep saying essentially the same thing. I know it's frustrating to be misunderstood, but your words are all we have from you. To be understood, you need to change your words.

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Like it just feels so fucking rude at this point. You have to know you're being rude, surely.

How sure are you of that?

That you can respect and betray someone at the same time. I disagree.

Agree you cannot have an A and say you have respected that person at the same time. Having an A is complete disregard and disrespect for another person. In fact I believe A's are abusive. If you had respect you wouldn't have had an A. It's like saying I have respect for you but I'm also going to talk back to you but respect you at the same time. It just doesn't make sense and I think that's what people are having an issue with. I'm sure you have great respect for your BH or you wouldn't be trying to reconcile. But having an A is an actual action of disrespect.

What help are you hoping to receive from SIers?

I wanted to get my feelings out and get some perspectives on it. Those who have encouraged me to be honest were helpful. I thought BSs would have helpful things to say too, but they only have the opposite... At this point, this thread is a whole shitshow. I hate it. I asked for its deletion. I hate that I can't stop responding to people who are clearly sick in the head enough to troll someone who's suffered this kind of abuse for the majority of their childhood. There's some small part of me that just wants them to fucking admit that that's what they're doing -- I don't even want an apology, I just want them to acknowledge it-- but I know they never will. And so I can't stop myself from wasting my whole goddamned day engaging with them. It's so stupid.

Have you considered the possibility that others might see you more accurately than you see yourself?

They very obviously do not, because they're saying that I think/feel/believe these things that I don't. They can't possibly have a remotely accurate image of me in their heads.

Have you considered that you might be misinterpreting what responders have written?

Is there another way to interpret "You don't respect your H" and "You're rationalizing [the affair]?" Genuinely curious.

I don't understand the tone of your responses. You say, in effect, that you're being misunderstood, and yet you keep saying essentially the same thing. I know it's frustrating to be misunderstood, but your words are all we have from you. To be understood, you need to change your words.

I've tried to explain in multiple different ways. I elaborated. I expanded on my own feelings. I provided analogies. If that doesn't help, I don't think it's a wording/comprehension issue; I think it's that people aren't listening. They see and hear what they want to. They twist things to fit their biases and preconceived notions of a WS. They color in between lines that they're drawing in themselves and are adamant that the coloring page is complete, and it's not.

How sure are you of that?

Because I cannot believe that anyone would engage this much with someone they're not even willing to listen to. It has to be trolling, at this point.

I do hope you and your BH are able to successfully reconcile it is good you are in therapy and I do believe you are remorseful. I think it is great you are posting here maybe we are getting it confused and just need to move forward with helping you.

I think it’s simply a difference between how you define respect and how others define it.

I said to you that I believe you have the feeling of respecting him but your actions do not align with that feeling. I did not use the term cognitive dissonance but you went on to explain it that way.

At this point I think the audience are defining respect to include actions. And regardless of whether you respected him the whole time, loved him above all others, there is a matter of gaining back his trust. I can only tell you that feeling one way and acting another will not do that. And it’s not just during the affair, it’s after the affair- the idea of holding back truthful responses is in opposition of giving someone respect to make decisions given all the honest information.

You can know it’s wrong. You can have the feelings of respect and love. Yet, your actions moving forward will make or break your reconciliation.

It’s funny I have been around here for 8 years, and I never once remember someone accusing the whole forum of gaslighting them. I think you are in a lot of pain, and maybe participating here and other places is not alleviating it but aggravating it. Do you have a trusted friend or therapist in real life, someone you can trust? Maybe that’s going to be the better method for you to heal. I think that is where all your focus needs to be, honestly. Healing. There is a deep well of pain here. I wish you the best.

I am not trolling here, Treading. I have never trolled anyone on SI. This virtual community, it's members, helped me to survive infidelity and keep my sanity. I come back, from time to time, to try and pay it forward, you know? To help others. I'm not an expert, I don't hold any PhD, I'm just a... "sick, sick individual."

I've been following this discussion and find your pursuit of logical discourse compelling. It's a realm I often frequent myself. I have a question for you, based on a hypothetical scenario.

Imagine you are speaking with a parent convicted of torturing their child—someone who committed truly extreme acts, similar to those described in the book, A Child Called "It". This would include things like forced ingestion of harmful substances, regular beatings, and making the child walk around covered in their brother's excrement.

​In your conversation, this mother insists that despite everything she did, she undyingly loved her child. She claims she knows what she feels/ felt and cannot be convinced otherwise, stating that to suggest otherwise would be gaslighting and trolling. Aside - the mother in the book really did think this.

​As a witness, you cannot possibly know how she felt. You could choose to accept her statement as true. Alternatively, you might conclude that either she's lying or that if she was compelled to do those actions to her own child then she fundamentally doesn't know what love is. She may have felt something and she's defining that something as love. But what that something is, is foreign to an objectively accepted definition of the word. Some people may say it's impossible to torture someone for years and love them.

​It seems to me that you are making a similar argument. You believe you felt respect for your husband. However, the world is telling you that the feelings you had and are choosing to define as respect is not in fact truly what respect is. They are asserting it is not possible to respect someone while simultaneously betraying them.

You said:

I felt respect for my H

To quote the great Thom Yorke: Just cause you feel it, doesn't mean it's there.

This whole thread, at it's heart is a definitional dispute. I'm not sure strickly there is a true right or wrong. If you were to ask me personally, I don't believe one can respect their partner and betray them. Certainly not repeatedly. Nor do I think you can love them and do so. These are my definitions.

Let's check in with the old Oxford dictionary on this matter to show if it sheds any light:

Respect (Verb)

1. To admire:

To hold a very good opinion of someone or something and admire them.

Example: "She is a highly respected teacher".

2. To show consideration for:

To treat someone or something with regard, care, and courtesy.

Example: "He promised to respect our wishes".

3. To not violate:

To refrain from interfering with or harming something.

Example: "The new government must respect the constitution".

You could make a good argument for point 1. I fear you'd directly fail on point 2 & 3. Not sure if that sheds any further light on the matter to be honest.

All of this to say, your response seems a tad extreme. Some people think in order to respect someone you can not betray them. You think you can do both simultaneously. The mother of a child called It's in prison either way. It's not personal. It's just a difference of opinions.

Where I do agree with you is where you say:

I was correct in guessing that H would stay, and I’m sure that there is a high probability he would eventually come back even if he left me for a time. That’s quite simply a prediction based on my observation of his behavior and personality

Here other posters are suggesting the very fact you thought your husband was a doormat is proof you lacked respect. I actually disagree with the other posters here. You can respect someone you think is a push over. You can respect a door mat. But to go back the above point, can you respect a door mat whilst also smearing your muddy shoes all over it? As I've said, I think not.

All of this is so far is.... welll a little explosive but generally fine. We all use words in different ways. Looking deeper, you said:

Is this what you did to your wife? No wonder she cheated

This offers a glimpse into your mindset, a pattern others have noted as well. Your belief that cheating is a justified response to a partner's actions is where you have the most work to do.

For example, you claimed another user's wife cheated on him because he was a gaslighter. The reason you did this—whether subconsciously or by letting your guard down—is that you believe your own actions were justified. You felt your husband wasn't fulfilling your needs, and therefore, you were entitled to cheat. This is a common mindset for someone who has been unfaithful. So don't worry about being special.

This is my biggest concern and recommendation. Your thought processes appear fundamentally broken and require a deeper level of help than this board can offer. This community can provide advice and point people in the right direction, but it can't rewire a person's thinking.

Did you deserve to be abused? Think on that. No one deserves to be cheated on, just as no one deserves to be abused. I've seen this before: victims of abuse can sometimes become abusers themselves. What's more concerning than your actions is that you seem to have adopted an abuser's mindset.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 3:43 PM, Friday, September 5th]

I wonder if there is a connection between the extreme sense of entitlement the OP shows here- "I can say horrible things about the BPs on this forum because I was once abused and they aren't seeing things my way" and the sense of entitlement displayed during the attempted PA- "I can attempt this PA despite my deep feelings of respect for my husband because he is not meeting my needs."

Maybe the OP needs to explore her "why's" in that way.