SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

During the A… Well, maybe I need to say "my affair" and actually own it… I always assumed that if I got caught, H and I would still stay together, if not romantically, then at least for our 4 yo daughter.

He recently started having this crisis where he realized that everyone he’s ever loved has hurt him: both of his parents (abuse, neglect, failure to safeguard), his ExW (emotional abuse and neglect, sabotage), his older daughters (abandonment in suspected retaliation for our relationship), and now, me (deceit, infidelity.) He’s asked me repeatedly whether I thought about the consequences of the affair on our marriage, and whether I thought it was worth potentially losing him over… I didn’t have the heart to tell him that I didn’t think he was going anywhere. I told him I "just didn’t think it through" and that I thought that the A would end on its own and be swept under the rug forever. (The last half of that is true, but certainly not the quotes.)

I don’t have the heart to tell him the whole truth about what I assumed. I don’t have the heart to tell him, when he asks what it is about him that causes his loved ones to hurt him, and what’s wrong with him that he still loves them and caters to them and chases their affection afterwards, that maybe he shouldn’t… Well, do that.

And I know that’s selfish, but I’m absolutely terrified of losing him now. I literally do not know what I would do without him. (And of course in my head, there’s still a little voice going "just tell him that you understand and that you’ll always wait for him, and then stay single, and probably in less than a year, he’ll come crawling back to you because you’re better than loneliness or having to start all over." Isn’t that just f***ed?)

And when the A was going on, I genuinely wasn’t able to conceptualize the consequences for H. Like, I knew that it would "hurt." I didn’t know the extent of that hurt, the absolute devastation, PTSD, physical symptoms, loss of self esteem, etc. etc., nor all the effects it would have on our relationship. People have asked me, "Well didn’t you think about how you would feel if he did that to you?" Yes, I did, but to be fair, I don’t think I would feel the same way at all. Like I think I would be upset if he lied to me repeatedly. But I don’t think I would be quite so hurt by the actual… interactions with an AP. I would wonder what it is that I’m not giving him, and figure out if I can give those things to him, and if I couldn’t, then, well… why shouldn’t he have two partners, especially if he’s still meeting all of my needs? I don’t think I’ve ever even experienced jealousy in that way; I just don’t think I have that brainfold.

I am experiencing a little bit of anxiety about losing him, though. Like if he were to have a revenge A, I would understand… but there is a tiny part of me that worries that a new love might be more exciting to him than a nearly decade old relationship, and what if she treats him better (you know, the way I did in the beginning)… and he leaves me? Even worse, what if he stays with me until our daughter leaves the nest, when I’m in my 40s, and then leaves me? I think I would just simply die if that happened. Or maybe (and I stress that this is a joke) I’d have to just take both of us out.

I guess this is just the consequence, isn’t it? This is what I have to live with now, because I went and caught feelings for a colleague on a two week work trip, and exchanged numbers, and sexted him, and tried to make plans to meet up with him again, and suspected he was lying to me, and failed to cut it off at any of those points.

This sucks so bad.

[This message edited by TreadingWater1592 at 2:40 PM, Thursday, September 4th]

With respect...you sound like you have very little respect for your husband. I would be devastated if I saw my WH writing about me like this!

Hello. Former WH here. My BW and I just passed the 6 year anti-versary of D-Day back in May. We are continuing to heal and my gratefulness to her only increases each day. She is the true epitome of grace and I don't deserve any of it.

It really does suck. What makes it worse is all of it is our own doing.

You have been heard. I was very guilty of the same thoughts while actively cheating. I don't need to tell you that all of that thinking was a steaming pile of bullshit come D-Day.

The one thing I did right on D-Day and in the immediate days following was confess and timeline everything. Not just about the EAP who outed me with an anonymous letter, but all the other affairs and sneaking around. I also had the advantage of being in IC for 6 months when the dam broke, though I really screwed it up by refusing to self-disclose when my therapist was encouraging me to. All of this to say that when my BW confronted me out of the blue with the letter from my EAP, I had already resigned myself to the terror of losing her.

I don’t have the heart to tell him the whole truth

Gently, you didn't have the heart to consider him while you were in the A either. But right now he's giving you the chance to change that. Notice where I cropped your quote. Honesty at all times is more crucial than ever. Lies of omission are still lies. They keep those walls up in the marriage that need to be torn down. Be humble, be vulnerable, let him know you're hearing him.

I am experiencing a little bit of anxiety about losing him, though. Like if he were to have a revenge A, I would understand… but there is a tiny part of me that worries that a new love might be more exciting to him than a nearly decade old relationship, and what if she treats him better (you know, the way I did in the beginning)… and he leaves me? Even worse, what if he stays with me until our daughter leaves the nest, when I’m in my 40s, and then leaves me? I think I would just simply die if that happened. Or maybe (and I stress that this is a joke) I’d have to just take both of us out.

You have no idea how you would react if you were in his shoes. None of us do. That's just more wayward thinking. No matter what your BH decides to do, either now or in the future, is his decision. The most important thing for you is to heal yourself and help him any way you can, regardless of the outcome.

I guess this is just the consequence, isn’t it? This is what I have to live with now, because I went and caught feelings for a colleague on a two week work trip, and exchanged numbers, and sexted him, and tried to make plans to meet up with him again, and suspected he was lying to me, and failed to cut it off at any of those points.

Things are really raw right now. I beat myself up plenty over the first 2 years or so of R. Shame spirals are just awful and when you're stuck in one, it seems like you'll never break the surface again. But no, you don't have to "live" with this. There is a way forward and coming here is a big first step.

Thank you for sharing this. I'm not the best writer and mostly lurk now, but posts like this really do help. No stop sign on your post, so you will be hearing from betrayeds as well as other waywards who will give you further insights. Please keep coming back.

@Evio I hate when other people try to tell me how I feel about my own husband. "Demonstrating respect/behaving respectfully towards" is different from "feeling respect for" someone. I know having an A was disrespectful behavior, in that time period. But I respect him more than I could describe, and more than anyone else I know… I do have these thoughts that can come off as sociopathic/clinical/narcissistic (such as "he’d come crawling back", but I’m capable of recognizing their nature and rejecting them.

@SkipThumelue Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I wasn't telling you how you feel...I was saying it SOUNDS like you don't respect him, and I was saying how I WOULD FEEL as a betrayed spouse reading your post.

What is the point of saying "you sound like you have very little respect for your H" rather than asking "Do you respect your H?" if not to make assumptions about how it is I feel? I don’t see a situation in which that would ever be helpful.

TW,

Tell him the truth all of it without omissions or minimisations.

Offer to write out in a notebook the details of the affair.

It sounds as if everyone that matters to him lied to him digging the hole deeper with more lies is not helping. Start filling it with the truth maybe you can regrow some trust.

He knows your still lying, but is too crushed by your confirmation, in his mind,of his worthlessness

MH here, from a long-dead relationship. Am happily married now for over 30 years and counting.
I'll pile on to what Evio said, but I'll acknowledge your preferred phrasing. There's common advice around here to only trust behavior in the context of an affair, and your behavior and current descriptions are a tell that you do not, nor did you, respect your husband. I don't know how you feel, exactly, but I don't see respect, nor remorse.
I see regret, e.g. the devastation you wrought on your husband must make you feel bad. But you do not seem to be putting him first. I still see mild justification in how you're feeling. Plus, it's all about you. How you would feel if he...That's wayward thinking still.
Plus, 2x4 here, you have no idea how you would feel if he cheated because he didn't cheat. No one knows until it happens to them. As indicated above, my former fiancee and I both cheated, her first and then me in revenge. In my anger following discovery, I asked her how she'd feel if I cheated and she sounded much like you. I then followed through, and she was devastated. More so than me, from what I could tell. So, no, let go of that idea.
I have to admit, few waywards use language like this here, even in pointing out their own fucked up selfish and entitled thinking:

he’ll come crawling back to you because you’re better than loneliness or having to start all over." Isn’t that just f***ed?)

That was jarring to read. If I knew your husband, I would advise him to run as quickly as possible if you really ever felt that way. I suspect you'll say that you of course don't, it was just an illustration of how vile your thought process was. But still...
I also challenge you to reframe your thinking. This line

...and what if she treats him better (you know, the way I did in the beginning)

stands out to me. Put it this way. Virtually every other woman in the world is a better candidate for marriage than you (and presumably his ex) because those women did not destroy him the way you did. You are no longer some kind of prize, and it would take years of hard work for both of you. Even then, you'll likely never be on the pedestal he had you on before. Just know that.
A few questions to fill in the blanks.
It may be helpful to understand better what your A entailed. How long did it go on? Was it someone he knew? Was it in your marital home? Did you give him things you didn't give your BH? None of this is to be salacious, rather they are details that may influence the likelihood that he may be able to accept what you did to your family.
Also, are you saying he somehow brought this on himself by putting his family on a pedestal?
Why do his daughters dislike you? I assume they disliked you before your A. Do they know about it?
Last, why, exactly

And I know that’s selfish, but I’m absolutely terrified of losing him now

?
Keep posting, and stay strong.

Treading, you may not realize this, and I'm sure you don't, but my impression on reading your comments was the same as Evio's. You don't respect your husband. I don't think you do now even though you can't see it or it pains you to think of this, but obviously that's the way you come across at least to some people. You might consider whether there is something to this. I don't have a lot of time right now to fully say what respect or disrespect might be, but I think you take him for granted, or at least you did. Now that you've done some damage you fear that he might leave and that would leave you without various things. What do you really fear losing? Him personally as a human, or things he provides, or status, etc? These are all things to consider.

As for this pattern that seems to occur with your husband, it might be because of his childhood abusive "training" from his parents he might unconsciously seek out people or situations that replicate this in some way because it's what he's used to. Even abuse can provide a certain comfort level if it's what we're familiar with. We often tend to marry our parents in some sense. So he might consider how he's possibly replicating old situations and sensations with other people. Probably the best way to do this topic is with IC as it is a painful one, especially when we consider how we might be unconsciously sabotaging ourselves, possibly for years. Perhaps as applies to your relationship there are elements here even from the beginning that might replicate those parental situations. Perhaps you two have been filling old roles neither of you is really aware of.

I'm not trying to hurt you here, but hopefully trying to give you my possible insights into what is happening with you two, and what is repetitive in his relationships in general.

@survrus He’s been depressed for the last few days, and was struggling to do the things he needed to do at work. I went to call him, in tears, to admit that I’m terrified of losing him and that’s why I’d been (probably poorly, attempting to) conceal that I didn’t expect he would leave when I was having the affair. But right as he picked up the call, he sounded in a better mood, so instead I pivoted to asking if his day is productive. He said it has been, thanks for asking, and we scheduled a gym date instead. I made a new note in my phone titled "saved thoughts for couple’s counseling" and wrote it down there instead, since our CC is going to cause him to think about the A again at that point, anyway.

@1994 I’ve interacted with enough abusers to understand that someone who continues to insist they know how I feel better than I do, in a twisted, round-about way while maintaining that they aren’t doing that, and who twists what I say out of context, doesn’t have my best interests at heart. So I will not be responding to that part. But to answer your questions:

I didn’t seek out this A. I went away for 2 weeks for my job and started talking with (literally talking with, not the Gen Z "talking with") a colleague, and feelings developed so gradually that I was able to sort of gaslight myself about them not being real at all…We kept it professional and platonic during that time— no physical contact beyond a brief parting hug. Before we left, we exchanged numbers, and we were in contact for about 4 weeks after I got home from the trip.

I live in PA and he lives in TX (which is part of the reason I could rationalize exchanging numbers: "this won’t go anywhere; we live too far apart"), and the conversations became flirty and eventually sexual. I was attempting to arrange a meet up over another weekend away for work. It didn’t end up happening because D-day happened a few days prior, at which point I attempted to go NC with AP (though I expect it wouldn’t have come to fruition anyway because AP was giving me the run around with any concrete details about flights or a hotel, and I was seriously considering cutting it off at that point… "attempted to go NC" because he contacted me later, at which point I told him off for pursuing a married person, with H’s explicit permission and knowledge of course.)

H doesn’t know him personally, but he did google and learn an awful lot about him after he found out about the A…My stepdaughters and I have had a rocky relationship from the start, because H and I began seeing each other very shortly after their parents’ separation, and we didn’t give them the appropriate amount of time to process that before proceeding with introductions and living together and having a child of our own… We are on better terms now, though. Nobody knows about the infidelity except us, my mother, and our CC.

The affair is solely my fault; I will never say nor imply he "brought this upon himself." Same with all of the other horrific treatment he’s suffered at the hands of his loved ones… I do think he often fails to put appropriate distance between himself and people who treat him poorly, and he tends to try to win back their favor instead.

TW,

This is difficult, so I understand the emotions are raw. The questions I asked are very common details that are extremely tough for BHs to accept. BWs as well, but I'm only speaking from my own experience. If those are things that happened, you need to know that it will likely be very hard for him to hear.

Ok, so you respect your husband. Understand. I and others are pointing out that your words do not seem consistent with respect. I and others only know what you post and that's all anyone has to go by.

For another example, this

what it is about him that causes his loved ones to hurt him, and what’s wrong with him that he still loves them and caters to them and chases their affection afterwards, that maybe he shouldn’t… Well, do that.

sounds like you're saying he somehow contributes to others abusing him. As in, BJB's explanation of people seeking out abusive relationships would fit in this case, i.e. "brought this upon himself." Hence the question.

Also, it sounds like it wasn't a PA? This may be a bit cliche, but the general pattern here is that BHs have a harder time with PAs and BWs have a harder time with EAs (sorry for all the acronyms). Do with that what you will.

Bottom line, no one is here to abuse you, and no one is twisting anything to mean anything other than trying to ascertain the facts. If you're here because you want to learn how to help your husband get out of your infidelity, then you're in the right place.

[This message edited by 1994 at 7:49 PM, Tuesday, September 2nd]

I do think he often fails to put appropriate distance between himself and people who treat him poorly, and he tends to try to win back their favor instead.

Is this why you were convinced he wouldn't leave you over infidelity?

And if he learns to put "appropriate distance between himself and people who treat him poorly," are you headed for divorce?

Perhaps you'll answer me, a total stranger on the internet. That you "don't have the heart" to explain this to him, however, is extremely selfish and, I think, short-sighted.

Reconciliation requires honesty, candor, and a shit-ton of courage. Half measures and rationalizations won't cut it.

Be honest.

As for knowing how you'd feel being a betrayed spouse... maybe you're far more self-aware than the "average Jane," but if that was true, you'd have never had an affair.

I would wonder what it is that I’m not giving him, and figure out if I can give those things to him...

So, your affair happened because he wasn't giving you... whatever? It's his fault for not fulfilling whatever it is that you need?

[This message edited by Unhinged at 9:13 PM, Tuesday, September 2nd]

@1994 Dunno if that quote was cropped intentionally where it was cropped (suspicious), but I specifically said that he was asking what is it about him that leads to his loved ones abusing him. I’m not saying that he’s doing anything to bring it upon himself, but does often engage in behaviors that allow it to continue. For example, if his daughters withdraw and ignore him for days at a time because they’re pissed at him, he goes trying desperately to contact them, bringing them gifts, inviting them to fun outings… basically rewarding the abusive behavior by groveling.

Even when he discovered the affair and asked why I did it, and I told him because AP was meeting some needs of mine that he wasn’t, he immediately threw himself into trying to be better for me, in spite of the shit storm of emotions he was going through.

It didn’t become a PA, but I had intentions on taking it there, which he says is basically the same thing. So I don’t categorize it one way or the other.

And just to make it absolutely clear:

Reasons for an action and justifications for an action are two different things. Reasons are morally neutral ways for explaining the action. Justifications are reasons why the action was morally correct.

For example:

"I raked the leaves because I don’t want the grass to die" or "I didn’t rake the leaves because I was too tired"-> reasons

"I raked the leaves the leaves because it’s my duty to maintain the appearance of my part of the neighborhood" or "I didn’t rake the leaves because my neighbors are assholes and they deserve their property value to go down" -> justifications

Infidelity is never justified and I would never try to justify mine. There are, however, reasons that lead me to committing infidelity, which were that AP was meeting some needs that H wasn’t. THIS DOES NOT IMPLY THE INFIDELITY WAS HIS FAULT.

This is the only time I’m going to explain that, and anyone who willfully ignores this and misrepresents what I say, or insists they know me, my thoughts, my intentions, my motivations, or my meaning better than I do is being ignored, because that is disgusting behavior and I will NEVER let anyone do that to me again.

[This message edited by TreadingWater1592 at 11:38 PM, Tuesday, September 2nd]

@TreadingWater1592, post #14:

This is the only time I’m going to explain that, and anyone who willfully ignores this and misrepresents what I say, or insists they know me, my thoughts, my intentions, my motivations, or my meaning better than I do is being ignored, because that is disgusting behavior and I will NEVER let anyone do that to me again.

The problem with this is though, is that respect is a VERB as much as a noun. So is love. And on that note, your ACTIONS speak much MUCH louder than any of your words. Maybe all throughout your affair you maintained your FEELINGS of respect for your husband--that your husband is basically a decent and worthy human being, but as you ACTED without even considering your husband's feelings, your ACTIONS and thus YOU did not respect your husband. You cannot disrespect someone and respect them at the same time, nor can you love someone and do things that you know that are wrong and will hurt that someone, at the same time either. And in fact during your affair you made many decisions to disrespect and not love your husband.

Until you thoroughly own this, and it will be painful, you will not have owned your affair and all of its ugliness. So I will say that I agree with @evio and that you need to put down your defensiveness, it is holding you back.

ETA: I also take issue with your phrasing 'caught feelings'. No, you pursued a relationship w OM and refused to protect your BH in the process.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:08 AM, Wednesday, September 3rd]

I already acknowledged that my behavior during the affair was disrespectful and unloving. (You either failed to understand this or you intentionally ignored this. I suspect the latter.) I don’t know why the argument is still going on about how I feel towards him.

I am defensive because I’ve had this same fucking conversation over and over again on different forums, and it’s the same every time: some injured, infuriating c*** comes along and insists that I don’t love/respect my husband or that I don’t feel remorse, that I’m justifying the infidelity, and they twist whatever I try to tell them to make it the "wrong answer" and so that I appear like the worst person in the entire world. I was told this time it would be different by the person who recommended this site, but it isn’t.

By the way, telling someone to stop being "defensive" after doing all this to them? Also shitty, disgusting behavior. You can’t stop yourself, can you? You’re not going to get away with it without being called out because I lived with this shit for thirteen fucking years as a child. It’s plain as day now.

Edited to add: And no matter how much you fetishize strangers self flagellating on the internet at your demand, it’s not gonna fix your shitty fucking marriage.

[This message edited by TreadingWater1592 at 1:00 AM, Wednesday, September 3rd]

I already acknowledged that my behavior during the affair was disrespectful and unloving. (You either failed to understand this or you intentionally ignored this. I suspect the latter.) I don’t know why the argument is still going on about how I feel towards him.

Because FEELINGS, BEHAVIOR and ACTIONS go hand-in-hand. You cannot disconnect them,as you seem to be insisting to us that you can.

I will say a bit more. All these posts that you are finding harder to read--you BETTER BELIEVE that in the coming months, your BH will be accusing you of not respecting him, of not loving him. He WILL rage and he will flood. You can say whatever you want towards me on here, I just hope you can be strong enough for your BH. I wish you well.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 1:18 AM, Wednesday, September 3rd]

There are, however, reasons that lead me to committing infidelity, which were that AP was meeting some needs that H wasn’t.

Such as...?

Such as...?

Well, let me back up a bit… I moved all the way across the state for college in order to get far away from my abusive stepfather. In doing so, I lost all the friends I had in high school. I had social anxiety, a busy schedule and some other things going on (depression, suicidal ideation, social media addiction, hypersexuality) that left me pretty isolated. So I didn’t make friends in college either…These days, pretty much, if I don’t "click" with somebody immediately, I know a real friendship isn’t going to form… and that’s happened a few times throughout the years, but only ever with men. And of course the problem with men is that 90% of them want to have sex, and once they admit that to you, it’s not appropriate to be friends with them anymore as a MW, and I have to stop seeing them.

Presently, I stay at home with my 4 yo most of the time, with the exception of going away one weekend a month and two weeks in the summer for my job. (If you know what job it is, please refrain from mentioning it for anonymity purposes. thanks.) I’m so busy caring for her and our household that I don’t get out much, and H works pretty late most weekdays. We spend all weekend together as a family to make up for it… So basically, the only adult social interaction I’m getting is through social media (which I have to be careful with because it can get out of hand with my addiction) and with H.

And this was okay in the earlier years of our relationship, when we didn’t know everything about one another and weren’t really good at predicting what the other would say given just about any topic… But now we do, and H has been stressed with work, and he often just stays in his head with his own thoughts. We would sit at the dinner table or go on long car rides or wait in line for something in silence. Or he would come home from work and after dinner and cleaning up and struggling to get our daughter to bed, we’d collapse on the couch, put on the TV, and not talk to each other. In bed, we’d have sex, and then either talk about sex, or he’d roll over and pick up his kindle to read. It was driving me insane.

And I would try to get him to talk to me. Whenever I thought of anything at all, I’d engage him, but he would let the conversation die out, and then it felt like he just didn’t want to talk to me. If we were sitting in silence and I could tell he was thinking hard about something, I’d prompt him "what are you thinking?" (Which was like, several times a day. He wasn’t getting the hint.) I told him, "sometimes you go away in your head, and I just feel so far away from you." And he would apologize, but nothing would change…

The other issue… well, I have a pretty high sex drive, and he’s a bit older, so his is what it is. I never say no when he initiates, and I initiate much of the time. So we were having all the sex that he wanted, and probably a bit more, and I think that made him "spoiled" a bit. Not so excited by it anymore. It wasn’t like the beginning of our relationship where we couldn’t keep our hands off of each other, even when we weren’t having sex. I remember one day waking up and seeing him getting dressed in the light of the closet (really, really good lighting in there ) and not being able to take my eyes off of him, and thinking, "why isn’t it like that for him when I’m naked?" because the day prior, I received a shipment of new dresses, and started trying them on, one after the other with nothing on underneath, in the kitchen in full view of H, and I couldn’t get him to even look up from his tablet… I didn’t feel desired at all, anymore. (And it’s not like I’m out of shape or anything; I’m like 23 BMI and 17% body fat, which is hella lean for a woman and supposedly what he likes…) Minor changes when brought up to him, but not a lot.

So fast forward to when I’m away for two weeks, surrounded by my age peers and immersed in my very niche work culture, not having to do any childcare or laundry or cleaning (everything is communal there, so I only had to do my job)… and here’s this man that keeps seeking me out, who I click with immediately, and we just sit and talk. For hours and hours after our shift, until the only place with AC and Wi-Fi and hot food after 6pm, closes down for the night. And then towards the end, we’d "bump into" each other in the morning before our shift and talk then as well. And we laughed and told stories and learned about each other, and it was so, so lovely. The hellhole were were stuck in wasn’t so bad at all, as long as I got to see him each day.

I felt like I had been starving for a long time, and here was this massive buffet of junk food all of the sudden… And I think that my only friend has been H, my intimate partner, for so long, that my wires are now crossed: connecting with someone else through conversation translates to intimacy, for me. But I told myself that this new man was just a friend, that if I suspected he liked me "that way" too, that I was probably just being conceited and making up stories… So when it came time to go back home, it was really, really hard for me to say goodbye for what probably would be forever, so I made some stupid excuse to exchange numbers and keep in touch. The conversation didn’t have to end. (It should have. It fucking should have.)

And then of course we started flirting and eventually sexting and he was so excitable, and that felt amazing too. I felt desired again.

And all the while this was going on, I still loved H desperately. I felt immense guilt, and wanted to stop talking to AP. I wanted all the things AP was giving me to come from H, and I tried to communicate those needs… I thought, "Maybe he doesn’t want to talk to me anymore? Maybe he can’t hold a conversation even if he wanted to… Maybe this is just what happens to your sex life a decade into marriage." And there was one day I came home from the grocery store sobbing uncontrollably, because some voice in my head told me my marriage was dead. And I was so terrified of going back to that passionless silence that I couldn’t bring myself to tell AP it was definitively over (though I tried a couple times. He weaseled his way back in.)

And then H found out, and that was the end of it. We talked about it, and he understands what it is I was missing now. He makes me feel desired now. We talk now, although I wish it was more… I realize I need friends— probably female friends— so I’m not relying on H for all my social needs. I know he’s willing to try, as long as I communicate clearly and persistently…I just wish the A wasn’t what it took to make us see these things. What a costly, costly thing.