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[This message edited by Tinytim1980 at 7:56 AM, Friday, March 20th]

I will be honest, it’s hard to understand your perspective because to me the text messages were very similar. Your wife might have been slightly more descriptive. And it was appropriate for a second offense.

I think that tye biggest issue here for me is about protecting your children. The fact your mother is:

a) finding her need to dig for information and maligning your wife in front of your children more important than your daughters feelings or well being.

B) blaming your wife for behaviors that you have had a lot of influence over with your own behavior.

C) had been give a direct boundary and still crossed it once again.

Indicates that you should be less fearful of your mother, less protective of her. I think that this is a toxic relationship that you feel emotionally responsible for her. You must feel more emotionally responsible for your children and your wife on this matter. it would be hard to earn trust back if you are never going to take a stand for your primary family when someone is doing terrible things.

I am sorry, I definitely side with your wife over this. This is a second offense and should be much firmer. Your mother is a grown adult who is responsible for her actions and emotions. If she is holding things like suicide over your head that is manipulative and controlling to a degree that would beat whatever she thinks it is your wife is doing.

Given the text wasn’t rude nor was it dramatically different than what you wanted to send, I think you should have sent it, especially since she expressed the need to feel you were protecting her and your children. I don’t think that would have been you being a puppet, I think that would have been you laying down the law after a second break of boundaries.

I honestly feel like if you feel like you are a puppet, you are still More focused on your own pride and ego than making repairs.

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[This message edited by Tinytim1980 at 7:56 AM, Friday, March 20th]

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[This message edited by Tinytim1980 at 7:56 AM, Friday, March 20th]

Okay- I did misunderstand the timeline. So you are saying it’s only come up again because of the request to return to overnights.

I see.

I feel less strongly about it. You were willing to say remember these are the reasons. And you were willing to have supervised visits and no overnights. I think that is more reasonable than the way I read it the first time.

It’s seems like this is more a dynamic that your wife simply isn’t to a place that she feels safe with you yet and she was hoping for a big gesture. I think since the milk has already spilled on this and you can’t really go back, the best thing moving forward is to maybe look for other big gestures that make her feel seen, cared for and protected.

I think she is hinging a lot on this because she needs something. She thinks she has to decide what it is because she isn’t getting it from you. And I know there’s been progress in terms of anger, apparently you have created a different relationship with your mom. Still, change is such a slow process that sometimes it’s difficult to recognize the difference from point a to point b. Sometimes it’s simply not enough.

To be fair, she may not ever find a way that balances the scales and find some justice. There is no such thing. The best thing that can happen is that the bs finds the new relationship worth staying for and the scales only get balanced by providing grace.. I think perhaps she wanted to see you would go to great lengths because she wants to provide that grace. She may simply need more time to heal and see consistency with your progress. On the other hand, for some bs’s there is no coming back from it. It depends greatly on their value system. I think if you do more to show her she may not hinge things like this to be the one little thing you can do. To her this was telling her you dont value her feelings as much of her own. So instead of fighting this specific fight, look for ways to show her you value her feelings as much as your own. This may help her not feel like she has to look for it herself.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:51 PM, Friday, February 6th]

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[This message edited by Tinytim1980 at 7:56 AM, Friday, March 20th]

I think one of the things that doesn’t help and I don’t have an easy answer for is that when your I’m wife is emotional or demanding it triggers that boy in you and makes you feel things you did with your mom growing up.

Maybe see if you can start to differentiate that more in the moment. I have a response with my husband that leans fawning. I sometimes will think as if he is an authority figure.

I don’t have that completely gone but I have learned to redirect quicker and remind myself of the context. It has also required for me to have better boundaries over what my responsibilities are versus those I am in a relationship with. It helps realign my expectations of myself which allowed me to feel calmer inside when something is difficult or confrontational. You and I are opposite on how we react to it but the tendency spurs from the same sort of space and pattern.

IMO, my mom was always too intrusive when I was growing up. My mom and dad fought almost all the time. My W did not like it, but she didn't mention it until we had a kid. At that point she said she wasn't going to let our son visit my parents unless they agreed not to fight while we were there. That was a big deal, because we'd lived a day's travel from my home.

W left it to me to raise the issue. I saw it as choosing my W or my family. I believed I had to choose my W, but it was really difficult to put that belief into practice. I did it, though. My parents agreed, and they did a good job of cutting their fighting down while we were there.

So a part of me says, 'You have to choose your W.'

Another part of me says, however, that the goal is to stop your mom from pressuring your daughter and to stop her from dissing your W. The best way to do that, IMO, to to stick to those messages. The past is over; it can't be changed. This part of me says the message should emphasize what you want and de-emphasize the background.

IMO, anything that gets the messages across is OK.

Why text, though? Face to face is a lot stronger than text messaging. It's harder, but the payoff is greater.

BTW, our son started visiting both sets of grandparents on his own when he turned 5. A few years ago, he told us my parents fought all the time when he visited.

I’d have to side with your BS on this. Even though I think even she is being too nice about it.
You have a grandparent that is using your child to drive a wedge into your family. There would be no more 1 on 1 anything between grandparent and child ever again.

I can't help but think that your wife believes that she has been battling her MIL's intrusiveness since long before your affair. Add to the fact that your mother wasn't an ally of your wife post-discovery, and she more than likely feels that you have always....at least in her mind....put your mother ahead of your immediate family.

How much of that is true, I obviously wouldn't know, but it looks like your wife has put a self-imposed line in the sand, and you had little issue crossing it. You even state here that you didn't handle it well, and tried to put some sort of guilt trip on your wife.

It shouldn't have even come to this point if the situation was 'addressed' back in August. You and your wife should have had a clear vision of exactly how your mother was going to be handled when the time arose. Was it possibly wishful thinking that this future situation would not come to fruition? Or did you not foresee this scenario?

Not to pile on, but I am siding with your wife. You say there were three messages, escalating each time. If what you wrote is the harshest, I can tell you that from my view, your wife was being very reserved. To have her thoughts/feelings disregarded like this, I can reasonably understand her frustration.

When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. I always think of that quote when I was dealing with my late parents and my wife. You feel pulled in two directions. Until the day you don't. Your actions have caused your mom to come to your defence and your wife to fear for her emotional safety. And your poor daughter is now caught in between. You need to lead. Take accountability and firmly back your wife up and educate your mother. Your mother needs to hear it from you face to face.

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[This message edited by Tinytim1980 at 7:57 AM, Friday, March 20th]

[This message edited by Tinytim1980 at 7:54 AM, Friday, March 20th]

I don't have an all encompassing answer, but I do know I'd prioritize my wife over my mother if my mother was intentionally trying to undermine my wife.

You are in a tough spot and I don't envy you. You do have some making up to do with your wife, and she's the one you're living with. I'm sure every time you side with, or appear to defend your mother it probably feels like another knife in the back to your wife.

The line for me is that no one, NO ONE fucks with my kids. I would have gone off the deep end if any adult told my child to hide things from me and/or planted the idea that I or my spouse couldn't be trusted. That's how predators and pedophiles groom children. I'm not saying your mother is a predator, but I AM saying that by teaching your daughter to conceal things from you, she made your daughter more vulnerable to that type of person. She pretended to be a trusted adult while advancing her own agenda, and then she threw your daughter under the bus when you found out.

I wouldn't just limit overnights. No one who does that gets anywhere near my child again. At all.

[This message edited by BraveSirRobin at 12:32 AM, Friday, March 13th]

I’m with BraveSirRobin.

Your mother’s behavior is egregiously awful. She tried to use your young daughter against your wife; you found out and told Mom not to do that, and then Mom did it again.

Disgusting.

Your daughter shouldn’t be alone with your mother until daughter is much older.

And while I agree with your wife (except the letter should have been much stronger), this isn’t about you and your wife. This is about you and your mother.

I suppose your mother doesn’t like your wife and believes your infidelity is an opening to split you up.

Just, disgusting.

I think you need to clearly chose your BS or your family in your own mind. She sees them as an enemy of her and your marriage. She feels unsafe with you talking to them.

Can you ask your BS what kinds of interactions would be OK with her? Maybe it would be OK if you all have dinner together once a month, so that she is there and there is no chance of private conversation that is undermining to her. If that sounds awful to you, you can imagine it is a starting point, and as trust is rebuilt it might be possible to have more. She might see how they try to subtly undermine her at a dinner, and you stand up for her. That might help her to think that you would do that when she is not there.

What does your therapist say about this?