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All that led me to wonder how does forgiveness play a role in our healing as the BS? Does it matter if we forgive — as part of reconciliation?

Are we less happy if we do not forgive?

This is a tough one.

Firstly, thank you to Bigger for relaying your thoughts on changing your mindset from unforgiveness to pity. I found it practical and helpful.

I have long reflected on this subject. I do think that my unforgiveness and its close cousin, bitterness played a part in the failure of our ill fated attempt at reconciliation. It was a poison that tainted everything. How could it not? Fueled by anger, unforgiveness was strong within me.

There are those who say that forgiveness is not necessary for reconciliation, only acceptance. My experience was that unforgiveness and bitterness were a very large impedance both to my healing and to any reconciliation effort. It was part of the toxicity that flooded my soul in the aftermath of betrayal by the two people I trusted the most and trust did not come easily to me in the first place.

There is a concept that helps me with the idea of forgiveness. I do believe that it is necessary for healing ultimately. The concept is that of the past, present and future perfect tense. What I mean by this is that I dont see forgiveness as a moment in time. As a "once and done". I see it as a continious process, as a lifetime series of choices. In that vein, I have forgiven (past), I forgive (present), I will forgive (future). This helps me. Anytime bitter thoughts crop up, I have the option to choose forgiveness in that moment.

And, now I do. I keep choosing to forgive and it has helped me to move on.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:52 PM, Wednesday, August 27th]

OK ... except that my prejudice is that bitterness does more to obstruct R than lack of forgiveness. Is that your sense? Or do you think lack of forgiveness was a big obstruction, too, in a different way than bitterness was? (Genuine question. Feel free to ignore.)

I would not say that forgiving my W in itself made me happier, though I was definitely happier not dreaming up punishments. The thing is, In the 1.5-2 years between deciding I couldn't come up with a punishment for my W that didn't add to my pain, I had 1.5-2 years more of consistent open, honest, loving behavior from my W. That consistency certainly added to my happiness and to my willingness to forgive. Recovery is more general, rather than specific, cause and effect in my experience. YMMV, which is why I asked DT about his approach and experience.

The article I read this morning defined forgiveness as "the point where you no longer seek revenge even though you could act". I thought this was funny at first but then wondered if this is true.

There are so many definitions of forgiveness on this site alone, which results in people talking past each other all the time.

If you adopt that quote as a definition, then it is true (for you).

A lot of people put a lot of energy into not-forgiving. They keep the not-forgiveness and the resentfulness alive through their thoughts and actions daily. They are wary and alert for any signs of forgiveness, and nip it in the bud.

If the cheating spouse wants forgiveness, then that means they want something from the BS, and that puts the BS in a power position. It is hard to give that up.

There are two concepts that are distinct, but often get mixed up:
1. Can I or do I want to forgive them?
2. Do I want to stay married to them?

It is easier to forgive someone that you are divorcing. First, they are no longer a part of your life, and you can look at them from a detached point of view. Second, your lack of forgiveness no longer is able to manipulate them in a way that it could be before. Energy put into not-forgiving is wasted.

If you don’t want to forgive them, and in fact, you want them to suffer for what they did, the best way to do it is to stay married and make their life miserable.

Throughout my life I've been a forgiving person in that I've never wanted revenge (I don't even care for revenge fantasies in movies/books). If that's the definition of forgiveness, then I forgave WS right away. My anger after dday1 was primarily a secondary emotion to the immense grief and pain I felt. I was angry that he had destroyed the future I thought I had, but I didn't want to hurt him back.

I'm not a big believer in punishment either. I love redemption stories. I desperately wanted WS to make amends, which is why I gave him so many chances. The bitterness and resentment built in the years after dday because of his subsequent behavior. If he'd been able to do better, I think R would have worked for us.

For me personally, though, forgiveness means letting go of the pain and anger. With an LTA, false R, an EA disclosed a decade later, and so much trickle truth, there is a lot for me to forgive. Some of it I can and have let go, but some of it I can't. I still harbor no ill will toward WS. I hope he figures out a way to be happy and live a good life.

It's definitely easier to let go of *new* annoying behaviors of his now that I'm leaving him, but the history is still painful. I'm less than 3 years from dday1, though, and not even 2 years from the last dday, so I guess I have a ways to go. Maybe one day I'll be able to look back at it all without bitterness.

Sisoon

OK ... except that my prejudice is that bitterness does more to obstruct R than lack of forgiveness. Is that your sense? Or do you think lack of forgiveness was a big obstruction, too, in a different way than bitterness was? (Genuine question. Feel free to ignore.)

That is a good question. Really hadnt thought that deeply about differentiating between the two other than that I didnt/don't like what either/both do to me. How they make me feel in the long run. Id have to say that in my experience, harbored unforgiveness led to bitterness and both played their part in poisoning our deeply flawed attempt to reconcile.

I must also say that, pursuant to my last post, forgiveness is still ongoing, even this far removed. I still get triggered although nowhere near what it used to be. The temptation to ruminate and indulge in some negative feelings is still there, but, thankfully I am self aware enough and have enough therapy under my belt to bring healthy self talk to bear and stop the bitterness train.

I think it's hard to answer this without defining forgiveness. I like the definition that AI offered me: "Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process of releasing resentment, anger, and bitterness towards someone who has wronged you, even if that wrong continues to affect you. It doesn't mean forgetting, excusing the offense, or condoning the behavior, but rather choosing to let go of negative feelings and the desire for retribution."

By that definition, I think forgiveness is (eventually) necessary for a healthy reconciliation. I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to stay together in perpetual resentment, anger, and bitterness.

BSR

"Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process of releasing resentment, anger, and bitterness towards someone who has wronged you, even if that wrong continues to affect you. It doesn't mean forgetting, excusing the offense, or condoning the behavior, but rather choosing to let go of negative feelings and the desire for retribution."

This aligns with my understanding of the concept of forgiveness.

By that definition, I think forgiveness is (eventually) necessary for a healthy reconciliation. I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to stay together in perpetual resentment, anger, and bitterness.

Agreed.

And to me, I don't think it's R at all, much leas a healthy one, if either partner is walking around angry, bitter and full of resentment.

Life is too short to be bitter all the time. I lived that way half of my existence, and forgiving me for my miscues and my wife for hers has improved life quite a bit.

To clarify, I think anyone who is betrayed is certainly going to be bitter, angry and resentful to start -- and those are good things until you figure out your next steps or get back on your feet. That said, however long it takes to process the pain and all the hard work to recover, take all the time you need.

After that, again, for me, forgiveness was a key next step once I decided to offer the gift of R.

Somewhere down the line, I picked better over bitter -- my power, my agency to choose how to tackle the adversity.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 6:48 PM, Thursday, August 28th]

Hello,
No, there hasn't been any real benefits for my life by forgiving, sorry. Forgiveness was always emphasized in church growing up. So I will forgive people in my actions toward them, and I continue to do so, but it hasn't really changed anything in my experience. People continued to do whatever they were still doing. I wouldn't seek revenge on people who did wrong because in general that's just not something I do, so I will continue to forgive I guess, but I have yet to see any real benefits from it including with my sometimes-boyfriend R.

Oldwounds

After that, again, for me, forgiveness was a key next step once I decided to offer the gift of R.

Somewhere down the line, I picked better over bitter -- my power, my agency to choose how to tackle the adversity.

So much good here. I really like "I picked better over bitter"

As for me, my own forgiveness came long after the marriage was over. Forgiveness was a gift of freedom and health I gave to myself.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:00 PM, Friday, August 29th]

It may be useful to forgive an unrepentant person, but only if one stops trying to rely on the unrepentant person. It's great to forgive someone after getting them out of one's life.

It's good to forgive a repentant person, but a repentant person does the next right things because they're committed to living a good life, with or without forgiveness.

tjg, I'm so sorry that the people who have hurt you are still at least somewhat in your life.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:26 AM, Saturday, August 30th]

How many of us betrayeds had to "forgive ourselves" for the affair?

How many of us betrayeds had to "forgive ourselves" for the affair?

D day was only 4½ months ago for me. I think I'm still working on that one.